conversations with M.Karunanidhi's daughter M. Kanimozhi about keeping
Dayanidhi Maran out from negotiations with the Congress and to get the
telecom portfolio for A. Raja
Please allow a few seconds to elapse before the recordings begin.
Transcripts: May 22, 2009, 10:45:06 Kanni: Hello.
Nira: Kanni, apparently they relayed to your father yesterday…
Nira: That they do not want to give any infrastructure portfolio to Balu or Maran.
Kanni: Yeah. But nobody, who told it?
Nira: No, no. He was told apparently very, very clearly, it has been…
Kanni: No, he was not, he was not. That is the problem. Who came and told him?
Nira: They came in or, you know, told him or they must have spoken to him and Prime Minister spoke to him.
Kanni: No. Prime Minister did not. I was the one who was talking with
him. I was on the phone and he – Prime Minister said a few words, that’s
all. And see, Prime Minister can’t talk on a phone to dad and convey,
there is obviously… Prime Minister is also, you know, very soft spoken
and dad can’t hear that clearly also.
Kanni: And the conversation was not so long that they could have conveyed all that.
Nira: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kanni: They might have told somebody that, you don’t know whether that person is conveyed [Indiscernible] [0:01:02].
Nira: Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Okay. Let me find out who they
conveyed it to, my God there is so many people working on the thing,
Kanni: Yeah. See even somebody is [Indiscernible] [0:01:18] lower level
could have conveyed, they couldn’t have come and conveyed it.
Nira: Okay. Okay.
Kanni: All that is there, you know, and it depends on the credibility
of the person who came and conveyed it, whether coming from them or not.
Nira: Right. Right. Right.
Kanni: Even I got a news like this but I don’t know – somehow, somebody senior who has convey it, you know.
Nira: That’s right. That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right, I’m
going to just tell them again, yeah. I’ll call you back then.
Kanni: And see one more thing is that one of them can call Ghulam can call me and tell me.
Nira: That’s right.
Kanni: And I can go and tell dad and but somebody has to come and say,
yes they’ve said it. So, otherwise it would reflect very badly on me.
Nira: Right. Right. Okay. Okay. Listen, I’m meeting your mom at 12:30 hopefully.
Kanni: Okay. I’m here, I’m around.
Kanni: Please don’t tell this to mom, she will mess it up and go and tell some rubbish.
Nira: No, no, no, no.
Kanni: That won’t happen, ask Ghulam to call me and talk to me. I’ll be here around, you know.
Nira: Okay. Okay. *** May 22, 2009, 14:46:15 Kanni: Hello.
Nira: Hi. Listen, they’re caught up in a meeting, but they are going to speak to you.
Nira: They are going to speak to you, that message has gone to them.
What also that I have just mentioned to them is that you’re not, only
Raja was supposed to have gone to the swearing-in.
Nira: So they’re like little, they’re so sort of [Indiscernible]
[0:00:49.0] about the whole thing, they don’t understand what’s going
on. So, I told them….
Kanni: No, they just want to come and say that whatever happens, I’m in your side.
Nira: Who wants to say?
Kanni: Whoever, that guy who, Daya is going, no?
Nira: Daya is not talking to Ahmed Patel, Daya is not talking to Ahmed Patel, I don’t know who Daya is talking to.
Kanni: Okay. No, no, Daya is going to the swearing-in, no?
Nira: No, that’s what I’ve heard from Congress that he has given his name, that he is going to the swearing-in.
Kanni: I don’t know, he is supposed to come back with me. So, I mean,
it’s just that he’s going out to say that whatever – in spite of
whatever my leaders says, I’m [Indiscernible] [0:01:32.4].
Nira: Yeah, but your dad should be told, no?
Kanni: That is what, he will come and give some stupid cock and bull
story to him. He will say Ahmed Patel – no, no, he will come and say
Ahmed Patel called. He said at least you should come, you’re the only
representative, that you’re the face of DMK. If you’re not there, it
won’t be good.
Nira: If your dad were to say to him that I only authorized Raja to go,
no? If your dad said, dad to tell Raja to tell Maran that I only
authorized Raja not you.
Kanni: No, dad won’t, no way [Indiscernible] [0:02:09.5] have to call up dad and tell him, no I can’t. Nira: I know you’re fed up of it, but this is only a start, no?
Kanni: Yeah, yeah.
Nira: Politics, my dear.
Kanni: You don’t mind doing politics with other people, yes [Indiscernible] [0:02:30.3].
Nira: I know, but it’s okay, but I know you are frustrated with him, so
just leave him, just ignore him and you know he’ll soon become
irrelevant. But you have to….
Kanni: [Indiscernible] [0:02:38:6] it’s not that. No, no, it is not
that, you know. See, I don’t mind [Indiscernible] that somebody is
against your own party and leader, that is what….
Nira: Yeah, but then your father has to understand it, he’s not understanding, so you have to tell him that.
Kanni: How do I make him understand, keep telling, he doesn’t understand….
Nira: Who is going to make him understand? Only you can do that.
Nobody else, Kanni. He will not listen to anyone else except you. You
know that, the only person who is going to listen to because none of
the others, everybody else is still scared to go and tell him that.
You’re his daughter, so he can listen to you. You have to use your
position, Kanni, you have to. If you want to save the party, you’re
going to have to use it.
Kanni: I’ll do my best.
Nira: Yeah, you take care, I’ll call you….
Kanni: Anyway, I’ll be leaving to the airport at 4 o’clock….
Nira: Yeah, that’s doesn’t matter, so they’ll call you in Chennai, but they’ll know that they have to speak to you.
Kanni: Then, I’ll be reaching Chennai around 7:30 if possible.
Nira: Then, when they call you, you just tell them, you please come to
Chennai if you want to talk, whatever you want to talk come to… *** May 22, 2009, 20:04:19 Nira: Hello, it’s not true Kanni. So why should we tell him, there’s no need.
Kanni: No, no, I will just make sure because he is trying to spread the thing that….
Nira: No, no, no. Prime Minister has already clarified that the deal
has not been, we’re still in the middle of discussing, there is no point
Kanni: They have promised to give us telecom, but it cannot now become
[Indiscernible] [0:00:34.7] they’ve already told us they will give us
telecom, now it shouldn’t be given to him because he is going around
planting the stories that….
Nira: But ignore that, because he was planting it on the channels when you were on the flight.
Kanni: Yes, yes I know.
Nira: Yes, I know that and then I spoke to Raja, I spoke to Chennai
also. I got an input as to what had happened. I went back and told the
channels that there’s no deal that has been closed, Janardan Dwivedi is
the one who had said. Janardan Dwivedi was the one who made the
statement that the deal had been closed with the DMK. There is no need
for us to travel to Chennai. Then, the channels asked the prime
Kanni: Yes, yes. That I know. No, no. I’m not saying that. I’m just
saying be careful, because it shouldn’t, because he’s trying to get
somebody from the congress say things against Raja to dad.
Nira: Nobody said anything; the prime minister has not made a statement.
Kanni: Not the prime minister. When they come to meet dad…
Nira: Agreed. But Kanni, the prime minister has just made a statement
that I have no problem with Raja and Baalu, they’re my esteemed
colleagues. Prime minister has just made that statement.
Kanni: He can make a statement, but whoever is going to come and talk
to dad shouldn’t talk otherwise. Because, see, what people say outside
and what actually they mean is very different and all of us know that in
politics. You can always call somebody your friend and then come and
have a discussion and say, see, I don’t want this person. That is for
public appearances, we do a lot of things. So I’m just saying make sure
that whoever is going to come and talk doesn’t talk against this guy,
because I heard from another source that they…. Nira: Well, okay. Yes, I spoke to Raja also.
Kanni: See, Raja is one person who will say everything is not a problem; everything is okay.
Nira: Yes, yes, yes. I don’t think Congress is in any mood to discuss
what portfolio should be taken, they’re going to leave it to your
father, is what I was told by both the...
Kanni: No, no. I’m saying all that is fine. But they shouldn’t come
and say anything, because I’m sure they will come and say something
Nira: Yes, Baalu, they are saying. They’re saying against Baalu.
Kanni: No, but they also want to say, I think, against Raja.
Nira: They’re saying they’re not going to…
Kanni: Even one line against him will definitely take more to this guy.
Actually they say that we’re very happy to give it to Raja, because he
did a good job and things like that. Then it will be, it will work in
his favor. Even if they don’t go back, it is okay, but if it is going
to go against him, one word against him [Indiscernible] [0:03:28.3].
Nira: Have you heard this other thing from DMK, which is that they’re
saying that your meeting, whatever, whenever that’s going to happen,
tomorrow is it?
Nira: The DMK meeting, zonal one, that they may just suggest that both,
all three males, Raja, Baalu, Maran, should be removed and see new
Kanni: No, no, no. I don’t think that is happening, no, no. But just make sure of this, one second. *** May 23, 2009, 09:59:02 Kanni: Hello.
Nira: Hi, Kanni.
Kanni: Hi, Nira [Phonetic].
Nira: I spoke to them again whether they would speak to the CM and give
him some message, but they haven’t taken a call, I think what is being
spread right now is that the infrastructure should not be given to Baalu
and Raja. When actually what is being said is that it should not be
given to Maran and Baalu. So there is also a view that, he hasn’t met
Sonia Gandhi, I have confirmed that.
Kanni: Yeah, even I found out.
Nira: He is not met and I believe that he has indicated to somebody
that he has met your father separately and had a meeting with him and
briefed him on Delhi and your father had told him to quietly have a
meeting in Delhi on his own.
Kanni: No, that’s not true. Because when my – he actually asked
everybody to leave and he just wanted to have a word alone. My mother, I
mean, she didn’t realize that, she just took her glass of buttermilk to
my father, so she happened to be there, through the entire
conversation, he was trying to give [Inaudible] to him saying that it is
important, we should be there, what, it’s okay, I don’t mind. So that
is what he said, I mean, he hasn’t said anything alone. So dad hasn’t
said anything. Today, dad has been told that nobody who is actually
interested in joining the cabinet should be allowed to negotiate.
Nira: Correct, correct. Absolutely, yeah.
Kanni: Dad is quite okay with that.
Nira: Yeah, yeah. So I guess that’s the better way to do it, no?
Kanni: He is just lying and spreading…
Nira: No, he is saying that by the way. Because I spoke to Rajdeep just
a few minutes ago. So, I asked Rajdeep, I said where did you get this
information from? Then he said, look I’m going to tell you something.
He said Sun TV is actually working overtime in spreading news to my,
all our correspondents, not only ours, but Times Now and everybody else.
They are working overnight to just spread information and he said I
recognized it last night, they gave us wrong information when they said
that it had been done, the deal was signed, you know? Yeah, and he said
I recognized, so I’m very conscious of it, but this whole aspect of
infrastructure not going to Raja and Baalu is very dangerous. And I
said, look I don’t think you should be, prime minister has already
clarified all this. So then again I spoke to my, the Congress and asked
them whether there was any statement like this on infrastructure. They
said, we’ve given the births, we have not said anything else. Telecom
is already infrastructure. So if prime minister has any reservation,
Kanni: See, telecom is, like we only asked telecom for Raja.
Nira: Correct, correct.
Kanni: If they have problems, they wouldn’t have given it back to us.
Nira: They said exactly that. They said exactly that, that
infrastructure is telecom, we don’t have any problem with it but what he
has done is, he has used that very cleverly by saying infrastructure is
not, because Raja and Baalu are not welcome. I’m the only one now who
fits for telecom, because he doesn’t want to go to labor or chemical
Kanni: He doesn’t want to go because it’s not good for his image.
Nira: That’s right, that’s right. So just to let you know that that’s the way he has used it cleverly and Congress is…
Kanni: You should [Indiscernible]. He is very – see, let us – yo
should tell them also, Nira. He is the one who is actually creating
half the problem.
Nira: I did that, yeah. This morning, all my messages to everyone went
that it’s he is the only one. And I explained the whole Alagiri
expect, that they have to understand that he is a mass leader. And in
any case, in any party, priority would always go to a mass leader.
Nira: Yeah, so he is not a mass leader and therefore he is not a priority, he is trying it.
Kanni: We have other elections coming [Indiscernible] [0:04:06:6]. We do not want to antagonize all his followers.
Nira: Yes, correct.
Kanni: But actually one thing is you can tell them also, even if they
are not happy, you can do exactly what Lalu did. You can get a good MOS
under him, who will answer [Indiscernible] he has to deal with, he will
Nira: Correct. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I don’t think
they have a problem with him, by the way. They don’t have a problem
with Alagiri. Congress has no problem with him.
Kanni: No, no, so that is a problem. But this guy is the one who wants
telecom and he is spreading rumors, but I don’t think even the DMK is
interested in giving him telecom. Nira: I don’t think so.
Kanni: Because we’ve got our own channel and then it will go against us also.
Nira: But look, Kanni, you need to [Indiscernible] [0:04:55.1] deal
with his last mile later on, but we really have to deal with that whole
issue because of his blackmail to the other channels, which is the only
reason he has been able to do what he is, confusion he is able to
create. But you have a meeting in the afternoon, is it?
Kanni: No, nothing like that. But then whoever is going to come to
take over communication, they should come, go. I mean, I think the
government should insist on going in a big way about the Dish TV or
whatever, or to make sure the entire cable network is open to everybody.
Nira: No, we’re doing that. We are going to work on the policy on,
we’re going to set a lobby for it. That the last mile has to be
dismissed, we’re very, everyone is fed up, all the channels are fed up.
I’ll tell you that. We’re starting that process. We’re not – even we
all go together on that issue.
Kanni: Not just in Tamil Nadu, all over the country…
Nira: All over the country. Because you have to be fair, you have to be equitable to everyone.
Kanni: Exactly. I mean, nobody should have this kind of a stranglehold on, anybody for that matter.
Nira: That’s right, that’s right. I mean, what Jayalalitha had done
against him was the right thing. She had taken it into the state. That
was the right thing. But Kanni, your father hasn’t decided who the
MSB [Phonetic] [0:06:08.5] is going to be, right, for negotiations?
Kanni: I think they will decide today.
Nira: They will decide today. [Audio Gap]. This whole thing of
wanting extra birth, and how he spread it the last two days is giving
you a very, very bad impression, very, very bad impression. Somewhere
on the line your father has to come up…
Kanni: I think – today, I think it will get sorted out.
[Indiscernible] [0:07:05.6] because I am worried one extra word this
way, that way will completely go… *** May 24, 2009, 09:27:31 Kanni: Hello.
Nira: Hi, good morning.
Kanni: Sorry for I wake you up.
Nira: No, no [Indiscernible] [0:00:17] yeah, a few minutes back I got up, you know, hi.
Kanni: No, no, I just wanted to know, I mean, what they are planning to give for me?
Kanni: What are they planning to give for me?
Nira: I told you last night. I called after we spoke and I said that,
you know, look at the health option. But give her environment and
forest otherwise if the health is not there, independent charge or
consider the aviation one. You know, that’s the three I had said, you
know, what else there was, there. So, they weren’t sure.
[Indiscernible] [0:00:52] pass the message and they will talk with you
because they didn’t want to...
Kanni: Even tourism is not worth it.
Nira: Tourism independent charge they will not give you Kanni because
Ghulam Nabi Azad has still not given his, he wants something more than
what you call it. He has got only parliamentary affairs, you know.
Nira: They don’t want to give MP more than that.
Nira: That’s why. So, I did mention tourism because I don’t know because they will keep it up to cabinet post.
Nira: I didn’t know whether they will [Indiscernible] [0:01:22] because if tourism and culture together.
Nira: It’s got both the – we’ll get involved in all the umbrella of
temples and, you know, all this such thing [Indiscernible] [0:01:35] if
you want to but anyway, I mean like tell them now if you want. But I
didn’t tell them…
Kanni: No, no, I’ve given the list of that but anything and...
Nira: Why did you give the list on and what did you tell them?
Kanni: I just gave environment, health and tourism and culture also, they have added. They said they he will check it out.
Kanni: Maybe I’ll ask for Environment, Environment they won’t give, health they won’t give, you know.
Nira: Health I think, they have already allocated. It is my sense I think they have already allocated.
Kanni: Environment they will give, you know?
Nira: Independent charge? Yeah. You gave a list this morning, yeah.
Kanni: Yeah. I have given a list.
Nira: You didn’t put aviation, Kanni.
Kanni: You know, just an aviation I will take it up. No problem.
Nira: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because that would – but what about this one the others?
Kanni: Nothing. They said they’ll come back and tell us.
Nira: What they can give, you know.
Kanni: Yes, yes. Let’s see.
Nira: Has the meeting happed this morning?
Kanni: No, no, not yet.
Nira: What time is it starting?
Kanni: I think it’s 10, 10:30.
Nira: Okay, you’ll be there, you know. Just you again, you know, not the others, you know.
Kanni: Yeah, yeah.
Nira: And Alagiri, has he met your dad?
Kanni: No, no, no.
Nira: That’s what you opted, you know.
Nira: Okay. Good, good. Because I was wondering whether he would meet him. He would have spoken to him on the phone, you know…